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Genuine Discussion

I learned alot from Jolene's comment here.
(believe me when I say "you won't be able to miss the comment")
Thanks for doing that research Jolene. 

I am pretty sure Jolene leans a little right and thankfully she has always been very open about that and upfront with it. I "THINK?!" she has also always done a great job of being open minded and letting everyone speak and listening to both sides.

So here's what I want... I want a discussion on the Bailout, whatever the hell you wanna call and I want it to happen over here on, I think we all play with kid gloves a little over on That's cool, hell thats how I want it, that sit eis for fun, cool, fun stuff! 

Lets throw the gloves off and get done to the heart and soul of the economic situation. Use Jolene's comment over at whatsuphutch to get you started thinking. 

How do we fix it? Can we fix it?

I would love to be able to say "Who cares whose fault it is", but , I think we have to study cause and effect to find a solution and to try and not repeat mistakes.

I truly don't care which side of the aisle anyone is standing on anymore. I know it will come out that we are gonna blame it on the other side and no matter what I say I can't get that to not happen, so just cut loose. 

*I will continue to say until I die... "The biggest problem our system has is bipartisanship crap"

The democrats saying this economy is George Bush's fault is just as stupid as the Republicans trying to take it back to Clinton. We would have had the oversight and regulations we need to catch this a long time ago if it hadn't been presented and received with a "I hate the other side" attitude on both sides. It is the great inefficiency in the world!

Anyhow, to sum up, I loved Jolene's comment but wanted some reaction from you all about it. Please come back over here to do it if it is gonna get heated, please. 


  1. Cody,

    I'm glad we're going to have the discussion.

    Where I stand politically is anyone's guess, including mine.

    My parents were never political. I don't even remember politics being discussed as I was growing up.

    From 1978 (when I graduated from high school) until just before the Iraq War, I would have sworn I was liberal. I married a liberal guy 20 years ago.

    He joined the active duty, full-time military when we were dating because he believed so strongly in standing for people who didn't have the ability to stand for themselves. We were a military family for the first 8 years we were married and then he worked for Department of Defense as a federal employee until 10 years ago. His recall period expired just a couple of months before we went into Iraq.

    Then along came George W. Bush. Living in Texas while he was Governor and seeing the great things he did for Texas and how he reached across the aisle, it was hard for me to believe he'd had a total personality change when he got to DC. So I researched and found out he likely would never have been a Republican if his dad hadn't been a Republican President. He has more liberal policies than conservative ones.

    Then came the Iraq War and everyone labeled all those who supported it's necessity "neocons" and suddenly the world decided I was a neocon.

    What I happened to be was supportive of the troops because I'd spent years living in Navy/Marine housing, our son had grown up with kids in Navy/Marine housing and he'd gone to his first schooling at Ft. Belvoir, VA. Support for the troops wasn't academic to me because I'd felt the backlash while my husband was serving in the first Gulf War and I've lived the legacy of what the anti-war agenda has done to Vietnam Vets.

    So when each issue arose on this war, I didn't look to the media to tell me what was going on, I called up people who I knew had military family members and asked what the word was from the troops. I researched original documents. I became focused on finding out what was really going on verses what the media said was going on.

    So I did and do support the War in Iraq and I've largely supported Bush based on my personal experiences with him as the Governor of Texas while we lived here and because I believe, after all the screaming and shouting are done some time down the road, there will be an accurate picture of his Presidency and his policies.

    But I'm not happy about this bailout at all, not on anyone's part and any assigned blame by party is likely to bite me where I've lived most of my life, no matter how it goes.

    None of this makes me happy.

    I quit calling myself a liberal several years ago because I don't like what it means anymore in the public debate. It seems to mean partisan attacks rather than policy debate. It seems to mean perpetuated stereotypes rather than individualism and individuality.

    I'll be back to talk about the issue in a sec. I just thought I'd take the time to explain where I'm coming from because what I have to say next will never be popular.

  2. Let me begin with the numbers on the House vote of the bailout today. Hopefully it will clearly show this isn't a straight down the line party issue.

    Democrats, 141 yea and 94 nay
    Republicans, 65 yea and 133 nay
    Totals - 206 yea and 227 nay

    The bailout bill needed 217 votes to pass the House.

    I've been thinking about Dave Ramsey's proposal and I love the idea of insuring the debt rather than buying it. Upon reflection though, I'm not convinced changing the Mark to Market rules in SOX is the answer. Sorry Dave, I love ya but I think your talking like a banker. The banking industry perpetuated this mess by betting on subprime mortgages. Removing the safeguard that caught all of you up it now doesn't seem like the best solution.

    However the bailout goes, I think it's a bandaid. I don't deny the need for a bandaid. I'm just not interested in having a bandaid now and another one and another one and another one and another one.

    I think we have to acknowledge that social engineering of the banking system has been a failure.

    I think we have to acknowledge that Fannie and Freddie should always have fallen under the anti-trust rules we impose on private companies when their size and power becomes a threat to the market.

    In Fannie's case, I think we have to acknowledge that while the intent was always good, they have been corrupt and controlling of government for too long. Maybe we need to privatize Fannie like we did Sallie Mae in 1995.

    Or maybe Fannie just needs to go entirely, phased out of existence.

    If that doesn't happen, at the very least, Fannie needs to not buy votes for re-election and not wield the power it does over banks.

    There is a culture now in our federal government that found out some time ago that when a person from their own party was up for re-election, they'd vote them a bunch of earmarks they could take back home to their district and tell the voters, see what I've done for you.

    Once again, before anyone thinks I'm pointing a finger at them, my representative until recently was Tom DeLay. His office was about a mile from my house. Now it's Nick Lampson. The district goes from south Houston clear to the coast and includes Galveston so this is very painful for me to say on a number of levels. We've been sitting in the carnage that Hurricane Ike decided to dump on our heads for two weeks and now there's no money in the federal budget, especially not with this bailout.

    So I don't say earmarks and special interest politics have to go lightly. It will directly impact my life in the immediate future.

    I think we have to re-evaluate national priorities.

    I think we have to ask what we can "afford" rather than what we "deserve".

    As I said, what I had to say will not be popular. I've come to the conclusion these past few years that's it's better to be unpopular than to ignore what needs to be done.

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I love the discussion in the comments.. so... GO FOR IT!

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