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A Gay Rights Discussion

Over the years of this silly blog I have written several posts dealing with Gay rights and my thoughts about the current events surrounding their situation in our country.

If you want to read some of those posts... click here

It has worked its way back to the headlines in my hometown and while I decided not to deal with it because I felt like I had discussed it enough... I changed my mind.

Here's why:

I think there are 2 major points being ignored... one on both sides.

**Ok know this... Gay Marriage is a Constitutional Issue... plain and simple. I firmly believe that when we are deciding laws, the Constitution is the bible.... sorry... couldn't resist.

1. The Gay rights activists are ignoring the Constitution, ignoring citizens rights and diminishing peoples views and opinions and... that is the leading factor on why they get so much resistance.  Here's what I mean: Any human being in the United States has the right to believe and say what they want... 100% without recourse, at least legal recourse. Societal recourse is absolutely acceptable and often times the best option to accelerate a cause. But legal recourse against beliefs and statements is a violation of the Bill of Rights. So if someone says, being Gay is a sin.... I support there right to say that and think that. To some extent I applaud them for being firm in their faith. Believe and saying what you want without recourse is one of the pillars of our Country. Another is being able to do whatever you want to do... as long as it doesn't infringe on another person's rights. Some of the legislation being pursued and backed by the Gay Rights community is also very much infringing on the rights of American citizens. If a private citizen doesn't want to rent their property or be associated with a person, for any reason, they have that right. Legal recourse will not solve it... ever... Social recourse can, legislation does too things in moral issues: 1. Creates Criminals... 2. Infringes on that new criminals rights.

2. The other major point... is the one being completely ignored by the Anti-Gay Rights movement. It's the fact that this is a legal, Constitutional issue. Marriage, as far as the American Judicial System is concerned, is a legal contract. I don't see a movement against Muslim marriages in the United States, I don't see a Movement against courthouse steps marriages in the United States, I don't see a movement against Atheist marriages in the United States... All of those in the truest interpretations of the Bible are sins. But in America we don't (shouldn't) care... because that is the proper use of the Separation of Church and State argument.

Please understand this.... If the Church of Cody Just Made This Church UP does not want to have certain ceremonies of Marriage in their facilities... That is absolutely their right. They are not infringing on anyone's rights, because no one but them has any right to access to their facility. But that same Church should have no ability to completely step on the rights of any other individual to do something adult Americans are free to do.

We have to stop worrying about what we want... and start worrying about what is fair and just...

We have to let anyone of legal age exercise the same rights as anyone else of legal age.

We also have to learn to respect the rights of people to have their own views and beliefs... not respect their beliefs if you don't want... but respect their right to have them.

The same laws that allow Fred Phelps dumbass and his family to ruin themselves... are in fact the foundation of this country. Fred Phelps shouldn't have to hire anyone he doesn't want to, rent an apartment to anyone he doesn't want to, give access to he Church to anyone he doesn't want to. But he has zero right to dictate the law treating one adult different then the other unless they have done something to lose those rights. 



17 comments:

  1. Cody,
    Thank you for this post my friend. I feel the same way you do. And being a gay woman myself I appreciate it so much when people take the time to be concerned about me.
    You know.. in the past I have been a part of such groups where you march on Washington for gay rights.. and as I have gotten older I have come to realize that people do not want my lifestyle shoved down their throat any more than I want theirs shoved down mine. We all have a right to make choices about our own lives and live those choices and truths. Just because mine is different from yours doesn't make either one of us wrong.. or bad. What is wrong is judging each other because of our own personal choices. There is only one judge in my books and one day we will ALL have to answer to him.
    My God is a loving God that loves all his children. All races all genders all sexual orientations.
    I do believe that people are born gay. I know this to be my truth just for the fact that NO ONE in their right minds would EVER choose to live this lifestyle. Its TOO HARD!! The hardest part for me is when I have people meet me, I don't want them to think.. oh there is Kathy Thompson that lesbian! It's not WHAT I am it's WHO I am. I want them to say, Oh there is Kathy Thompson, that great Mother, sister, friend, partner, daughter...AMERICAN!
    In defense of the straight population like yourself.. I have to say this.. I think that gay people should just shut the hell up. Period. Every time you turn on the news its gay rights this.. gay marriage that.. sure.. I am all for gay rights..NOT special rights but equal.. and marriage should be for ANYONE who is in love.. but Gay people need to get off their damn soapboxes. People don't like stuff shoved down their throats. Especially in this part of the country. Gay people are so passionate about getting laws passed that they loose respect for the fact that straight people are JUST as passionate about the way they feel. And if they feel different than the way you do does not make them bad people. Cant we all live together in peace and harmony and have differences of opinions? Isn't that why we love America in the first place? So we have that opportunity to choose for ourselves and live in the land of the free?
    I want laws to change simply because I know that with me being gay there is a good possibility that one of my grand kids could be gay someday and I want the world to be a better place for them. So they don't have to feel judged like I have for the past 53 years.
    Ask any kid 25 or younger... "Is being gay a big deal"? Bet they will tell you no. And this makes me SO happy.. it shows that we as a nation are changing whether we want to or not. Back in 1977 when I came out the world was a whole different place. I was judged, beat up, tires slashed, called names...ect. Just for the fact of being gay. So can we say YAY for change??
    Thanks for letting me vent.. and thanks for the blog.. I always love reading your blogs..
    Take care
    Kathy

    ReplyDelete
  2. Kathy,

    I may have to ban lesbians from commenting on my blog...

    Its never good when the commenter make the point better than the guy whose name is in the website title... ;)

    Let me say 2 things...

    1. I'm always nervous when writing a blog post about stuff like this because I am concerned about how individuals who have been persecuted will respond to the white, straight, boring WASP dude giving his opinion on how people should handle discrimination. So thanks for taking it exactly how I mean it.

    2. The only point that you made that I want to offer more thought on is the statement "I think that gay people should just shut the hell up." --- I want to agree whole-heartedly with your entire comment except that part... In regards to having "Equal rights" I think Gay Marriage supporters need to continue the fight. I do think if they respected that what they want is not what everyone else wants, they would have more success, but I have been legally married for 17 years... so I have no real right to tell them how to feel/act. I loved your comment... just wanted to add that.

    Honestly it's responses like this that excite me when I click publish on this site.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Real quick Cody, but your analysis is dead wrong on a major point. The Fair Housing Act prohibits discrimination on the basis of the following "protected categories”: race or color; religion; national origin; familial status or age—includes families with children under the age of 18 and pregnant women; disability or handicap, or sex.


    http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/renters-rights-book/chapter5-2.html

    What Gay Rights groups are seeking are similar civil rights to include "sexual orientation" as a protected category--which seems reasonable to me.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Dave,
    I'm not wrong... Neither are you... I am familiar with and understand the Fair Housing Act... Too some extent. I agree that IF we are going to have a Fair Housing Act, that the GLBT community should be listed... I actually think the FHA is crucial in any housing unit that has been paid for in anyway with any amount of tax dollars. But the point where I Assume we differ is that in my opinion if a Gay man wants to build/buy a structure with his own money... And they don't want to rent it to a straight person or anyone they choose not to let into their private property, I believe they have that right. The Fair Housing strips that person... Or any landlord of some of their rights. Renting that Gay man's house is not a right... Its a privilege. Again, unless he has received tax funds or credits in anyway to purchase or improve the property.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Dave,
    I'm not wrong... Neither are you... I am familiar with and understand the Fair Housing Act... Too some extent. I agree that IF we are going to have a Fair Housing Act, that the GLBT community should be listed... I actually think the FHA is crucial in any housing unit that has been paid for in anyway with any amount of tax dollars. But the point where I Assume we differ is that in my opinion if a Gay man wants to build/buy a structure with his own money... And they don't want to rent it to a straight person or anyone they choose not to let into their private property, I believe they have that right. The Fair Housing strips that person... Or any landlord of some of their rights. Renting that Gay man's house is not a right... Its a privilege. Again, unless he has received tax funds or credits in anyway to purchase or improve the property.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I guess that is where you and I disagree. I am against legalized discrimination, where you only want to make discrimination illegal if it somehow tied to tax dollars.

    ReplyDelete
  7. If you call letting property owners have control of their property "Legalized Discrimination"... Do you call abortion "Legalized Murder"... Do you call letting people drink in their homes "Legalized Promotion of Alcoholism" do you call letting someone smoke a joint in their homes "Legalized promotion of Drug Addiction" do you call letting someone own a gun "Legalized Homocide?". Do you call me being able to decide who I would and wouldn't lend money to "Legalized Disrimination?" Just because someone could do something bad... Doesn't mean they will Dave... And the risk of them maybe doing something bad... That's a piss poor reason to take away their right to do what they want.

    The 2 main effects of the Fair Housing Act so far are driving racism and sexism into an underground "black market" type situation that is much harder to combat... And creating unjust lawsuits.

    If we had left it so that bigots could publicly act like bigots... (Not the Government, but private individuals) there will be less bigots around today. The conversations would have happened openly... People wouldn't have bowed up and gotten secretive and so defensive of their rights... And society, a free market, would have let us all grow, mature and evolve much faster. Once we begin legislating morality in the private sector... We crush societies ability to evolve in an honest manner.

    Dave, you have a great way of saying things like "Legalizing Discrimination" and making it almost seem like I said it. I don't want a law legalizing discrimination... I truly hate discrimination for almost any reason... But I also definitely don't want a law that removes anyones rights just because they MIGHT not privately treat someone fair. This attack on peoples rights... Is why the extremists on the other side fight back so hard... This "I am gonna force you to be morally correct" is why neither side listens to the other. If you let a landlord post a sign that says "don't rent to fags" and let them leave it up... Society would take care of it. I guarantee... But instead... He will take his homophobia underground and we will never as a society get past it... We will reach a false sense of success and never actually grow and evolve.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Based on your statements it appears that you support a repeal of the FHA which outlaws discrimination in housing. Thus, with no law prohibiting discrimination in housing, it would thus be "legal to discriminate" in housing.

    I think laws prohibiting discrimination in various areas (employment, housing, voting, etc.) are not only important and necessary (all authorized under the the Constitution and the Civil Rights Amendments, aka "your bible"), but simply not overburdening.

    I just don't see the big deal.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Dave,
    The big deal is... You are ignoring the rights of the landowners/landlords... They are the only ones that have rights in this situation. Noone has any right to access to anyone else's private property. What happens if I don't like red-heads... Will they be the next added to the list of people I have to rent to...?

    It boils down to this... Noone has the right to demand that someone else not be an asshole... Landowners have the right to be an asshole... Just like rappers have the right to say "fuck the police" and jackasses have the right to burn the American Flag... And Fred Phelps has the right to protest funerals... Assholes have the right to be assholes in our great country. It sucks at times... But that's the way it is... Trying to legislate that right away from them just makes them bigger, more defensive assholes. Letting society evolve on its on... That's how you could actually phase out the assholes.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I guess I think the Supreme Court rulings banning such discrimination and Congress passing laws banning the discrimination also phases out bigotry.

    Do you really support the right to return to Jim Crow laws in the pre-Civil Rights South? Back then, private landowners and private businesses could segregate restrooms, restaurants, hotels, apartment complex, movie theaters, drinking fountains, etc. for whites and blacks. Do you really think that should be permitted?

    This has nothing to do with speech, people can say whatever bigoted thing that they want. This is about commerce and civil rights. Surely you understand the horrible economic, educational and social disadvantages of such a system.

    ReplyDelete
  11. The answer is this...

    Jim Crow laws are the perfect defense of my point...

    Jim Crow laws DID NOT give the landowner the right to manage their own property... they mandated RACISM. Jim Crow laws were the Government legislating morality. The Government at the time thought that segregation was the Moral thing to do... so they made it mandatory. Bringing them up is the ultimate way to support my point.

    Any and every time the Government tries to legislate morality... it fails.

    Also about 95% of Jim Crow laws dealt with PUBLIC SECTOR issues... Marriage issues, public education issues, Military segregation issues...all things that I really, really, really tried to be crystal clear that I think should be legally non-discriminatory (<--- not sure that's a word.)

    If its a program paid for with tax dollars... The Fair Housing and Civil Rights acts should apply... there I said it again.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jim_Crow_laws_by_State

    Read them... the true stupidity behind them was completely driven by the Government trying to legislate morality... the same ridiculous under-lying cause behind banning gay marriage... it was NOT the Government ALLOWING people to be racist... it was them mandating it. The Fair Housing Act and Civil Rights Act... while obviously done with much better intentions and from a much more sincere place... were the same action... the Government telling people they had to treat everyone the same... even on their own private property. What they accomplished was people suppressing their racism and not growing and evolving as they would have if it had been handled socially.

    I hate that people take my points on this to the level of "Cody wants there to be discrimination" its dead wrong.

    I have fought and spoke out and campaigned for everyone in this country to have the exact same rights... but you have to truly understand rights. When it comes to renting the spare room in my garage... or pissing in a bathroom that I bought the land and I payed for the bathroom, no one has any "rights" in the situation except me. And when the Government infringes on my rights to make a feeble attempt to give the "privilege" to rent my property or piss in my pot... all they truly accomplish is making bigots go underground and dig their heels in deeper.

    We have made massive leaps in the last 50 years because of the desegregation of "rights"... we will always have widespread and deep-seated racism and homophobia as long as the Government keeps infringing on the rights of private individuals to insure the privilege of select groups.

    ReplyDelete
  12. People who use God as their reason to oppose gay marriage wouldn't bother me if they were also against divorce and court house marriages. Marriage already has 2 different meanings - one is legal, the other is spiritual - that's why most people get married in a church and fill out the legal papers. But some people skip the church part and are still legally married. There are also common law marriages, that are spiritual, but not legal. Gay rights are about the legal meaning of marriage, but opponents argue about the spiritual meaning of marriage. Apples and oranges....

    ReplyDelete
  13. That's an excellent point anonymous... I agree completely.

    ReplyDelete
  14. That is a good point, anonymous... We have to ban divorce!

    ReplyDelete
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I love the discussion in the comments.. so... GO FOR IT!

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